Many people would like to think that they will escape the tribulation by believing in the pretribulational position. They just don't want to hear the truth! Rapture is a good example of this blindness. In 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 verses 1-3 Paul Clearly states that the rapture doesn't occur before Antichrist's arrival. There are difficulties attaching to both the pretribulationism and posttribulationism positions. The Pretribulationists believe that the Church will be raptured at the beginning og the tribulation which is very great! But what of the references in Matthew 24 which indicate that some of the elect will be present during the tribulation? Also, they believe in the imminency of the Lord's return, which has no Biblical support. The posttribulationists run into the difficulty of explaining that the Christians will not face the wrath of God (Rom. 5:9; 1 Thess. 1:10). One of the mediating positions is the midtribulationism position. The STRENGTH of this view is that it resolves the difficulties faced by the pretribulationists and the posttribulationists. It holds that the church will go through the less severe part (usually the first half, or three-and-a-half years) of the tribulation, and then will be removed from the world. This view has also resolved the difficulty of whether the resurrection is spiritual or physical. Those people do not believe this; they want to believe that there will not come any kind of tribulation -- like World War III which is followed by the Antichrist -- simply ignore these verses. In contrast, they love reading verses 6-8. They believe that the Church of Born-Again Christians is the force which keeps Antichrist's physical manifestation out of this planet's surface. However, this is only peoples' own interpretation; the Bible doesn't say so. I believe that Paul means in verses 6-8 that the Holy Spirit is the subject who keeps Antichrist out of this planet. And, when He (the Holy Spirit) thinks that it is proper time, He takes off His protective hand above this planet and so Antichrist can come. I believe that this time is near. The choice of which part of the tribulation that the church will go through is arbitrary. I note that there are, however, not many proponents of this position.
The WEAKNESS of the midtribulation position is that the occurrence of the rapture is too predictable, exactly at the mid-point of the Daniel's 70 weeks. There are many scripture passages that indicate the Second Coming of the Lord and the rapture is not predictable. Matt. 24:37-39;Matt. 25:13; 1 Thess. 5:2-3.
Please allow me to restate the points that support the mid-tribulation position briefly:
1. No wrath of God on Christians;
2. No wrath of Satan on Christians;
3. Christ will return exactly at the midpoint of the 70 weeks of Daniel;
4. The prophecies in the Olivet Discourse apply only to Israel;
5. The time of Christ's return is exactly at the midpoint of the tribuation;
6. A multitude will enter the Millennium;
7. Jesus returns with the saints-No mention of going up raptured and then immediately returning.
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Hi Bro Jonathan!
Sounds like you don't hold to this view either.
But do you truly believe that Christians will go through the Tribulation? I know you mentioned that the Rapture will not happen until the appearing of the Antichrist. But what exactly marks the beginning of the Tribulation?
dear brother, can share what you mean by 'church going through tribulation is arbitrary'. GB
Bro Jonathan,
There are 3 different views about this if I'm right. The pre, post and mid tribulation. Each of tis have their own stand, interpretation and backing.
I personally belief about pre tribulation where when Christ appear the church and fellow believers will be rapture (1 Thess 4:16-18; 1 Cor 15:51-53)and caught in heaven.
But from your comment you don't seem to make your stand. Thanks.
Hi Jonathan,
Wow, you seemed to already started the arguments within your article. is there any definition for Anti-Christ or Anti-Christs as referred in other scriptures? Where is the beginning point of the Tribulation? I know there are alot of different opinions out there, even among theologians and scholars. there are too many conflicting scriptures giving different interpretations of the event. But what matter most is Christ coming is obsolute. Matt.24:14 -talks about God holding back His promise so that the gospel will be preached to all nations as a testimony before the end will come. 2 Peter 3:9 says God does not wish anyone to perish but all come to repentance. There are many scripture references encourage Christians in sharing in the sufferings of Christ (Romans 8:17; 1 Peter 2:21 ; Phil.1:29); not to mention the author-intent in the writing of revelation to the Seven Churches - preparation to suffer for Christ.
Hi Jonathan... Ha ha. You dare to be different, if this view is your stand. The conventional belief of the AG circle is pre-trib premillennial, if I'm right. I think there are some valid points to mid-trib premillennial view too. Like someone said, 'If all the Christians has gone during the tribulation period, who the Antichrist is going to anti?' I'm not saying that mid-trib is my stand, but I'm open to learn more...
Dear Bro Johnathan,
You don't seem to believe in the rapture but can you then at least explain what the verses in I Thessalonians 4:14-17 and Matthew 24:40-42 speak about.That Jesus will come in the clouds and there will be some persons suddenly taken away and Paul warns us that the day will come as a theieve in the night.Jesus even warns us in Matthew 24:37-39 that the tribulation period will come just as the floods came suddenly and he warns us to not be caught like the generation of Noah but he warns us to escape the tribulation that is soon to come.How do you explain all this.
Bro. Dohnie, you asked; But do you truly believe that Christians will go through the Tribulation?
YES, from the Scriptures, I am inclined to believe that Christians will go through the tribulation, there is no scripture really prove that we are not going throught the tribulation. What marks the beginning, Oh no, don't really know but the AntiChrist with his economic system will have to happen first; The Bible says many will turn away from the Lord, some already happens but not so many yet; many false teachers and false prophets will appear, there are some but not so prevalent yet. So, we fall again into a state of "Already but Not Yet!" tension. Tahnks for your interaction.
Dear bro. Joe, I don't mean 'church going through tribulation is arbitrary'. But rather the "choice of which part of the tribulation" "The choice of which part of the tribulation that the church will go through is arbitrary." Kindly reread my post, thanks and GBU!
Dear Bro. Jerome, thanks for your comments. Are you ready for the forum on Nov 13th? Yes, I am more inclined to believe the mid-tribulation position although I may not have made it clear and I am aware not many scholars are holding to these views. In fact there are not just 3 positions. The main ones are pre-tribulation and post-tribulation and because there are conflicting scriptures which make it difficult for us to decide which one, some ppl have come up with the mediating views . One of these is the mid-tribulation position which to me is more amicable; another view is partial rapture view which says that there are a series of raptures; the third mediating view is imminent post-tribulation. Pls refer to Erickson, page 1230.
Dear Freddie and friends, many of you have asked the same question: "When shall the tribulation begin?" The most likely answer is for the mid-tribulationists, it can only occur at the midway point of the 70th week of Daniel. By now you may also have noticed that the mid-tribulation position is quite similar to the pre-tribulation position except that the timing of Christ's return is too predictable and that is exactly its weakness. I am not sure for the beginning of tribuation for the pre- and post-tribution except that post-trib. is before the Christ's return, the other is just after Christ's return. Some even believe tribulation had already begun as many Christians are persecuted, whcih I am not subscribing to it.
Dear Raymond, I strongly believe in the rapture, otherwise, I shall be doomed to suffer in tribulation for ever! No never, I wish Christ will come quickly and rapture me in the middle of the tribulation when the suffering is getting unbearable!
Dear all, If I have not made it clear, allow me to restate the points of the mid-tribulation:
1. No wrath of God on Christians;
2. No wrath of Satan on Christians;
3. Christ will return exactly at the midpoint of the 70 weeks of Daniel;
4. The prophecies in the Olivet Discourse apply only to Israel;
5. The time of Christ's return is exactly at the midpoint of the tribuation;
6. A multitude will enter the Millennium;
7. Jesus returns with the saints-No mention of going up raptured and then immediately returning.
Pls feel free to critique any of these points. JT
Dear Bro Jonathan,
Thanks for your sharing on Mid Tribulation. Can you share on their strong and weak point with scripture. Thank you.
Sister Eunice, The strength of this Mid-tribulation view is that it emphasizes there will be neither wrath of God nor the wrath of Satan on Chrisitans: 1 Thess. 5:9-10; Romans 5:8-9; 1 Thess. 1:10 Luke 21:34-36; Zeph 2:2-3; Luke 17:26-29; Rev. 3:10-11; Isa. 26:19-21. These are similar to the Pre-Tribulation view. Only difference is that Mid-Tribulation can only occur at the mid-point of the Daniel's 70 weeks. This is the weak point and the scriptures are: Matt. 24:37-39; Matt. 25:13; 1 Thess. 5:2-3 which say that the Return of Christ is not predictable. Another strong point is that in the post-Tribulation, If all the saints are raptured, who are to populate the land, the mid-tribulationists believe that a large number of people are saved during the 7-year period of Daniel.1 Cor. 15:52-53
Hi Jonathan,
Well, you did make your strong stand on your belief. It is perfectly alright. Many of today's bible scholars hold to two stands, namely mid-; and post-tribulations. Maybe myself needs greater conviction and affirmation of revelation; to change my pre-trib; and pre-millennium stand. Thanks.
Dear Freddie, Don't just change your stand. Look at the Bible closely and make your final judgment which position has the greatest Biblical support. Go by the Word, not how many people follow a particular position. Erickson seems to favor the posttribulation stand. I think the midtribulation is more amicable. No one really knows until we reach the "age to come!", maybe in our lifetime, who knows!
Whoa! Thanks Bro Jonathan!
You really helped to clarify a number of things in an issue that can prove so confusing. Heh.
Honestly, I don't quite fully understand the issues involved, but in terms of PREFERENCE, I would much rather be pre-trib pre-mil, simply because it sounds the most comforting. Heh. Thanks again!
I think the issue concerning whether it is pre-trib, mid-trib, or post trip in a way has created clashes of opinions among the wider circle of Christians. I would say I will take the matter seriously, but not too seriously as to quarrel with others, but perhaps continue searching for a more accurate position which I consider myself haven't arrived yet. It is not good even when what we believe in is accurate, but we are proud.. Well, that is my opinion... :) Thanks
Dear Bro. Raymond, Truly I and the mid-tribulationists believe in the rapture and the tribulation; but when? I don't know how we can believe that the church is snatched away just before that great tribulation as the Pre-tribulationists believe. There are enough scripture that prove that Christians as well as the wicked will go through the tribulation(Matt. 24:15-44). But thanks be to God that because He is so compassionate that He will rapture us just before the tribulation gets unbearable. (Matt. 24:22) and the mid-tribulationists believe it will be in the middle of the 7 years of tribulation, which coincided with the mid-point of Daniel's 70 weeks. ( Daniel 9:20-27)Definitely we will be in the tribulation when the Lord comes to rapture us. So the Pre-tribulation position is a bit shaky, don't you think so?
Dear Bro. Dohnie, Thanks for your compliments, there are issues that are still not very clear-cut as there are opposing scriptures: Nevertheless, it is naive to believe that the church will be snatched away just b4 the great tribulation. Tribulation is not for training Christians in righteousness but the design and plan of Antichrist to cause harm upon the Christians but it will be cut short (Matt. 24:22) as the Lord knows our capability and rapture us when we can longer "tahan"! Many believe it will be after 3 1/2 years in the 7 years period of tribulation.
Thanks Bro Jonathan!
But can I bring up a question that was also brought up in someone else's blog? Does the bible actually say that the tribulation lasts 7 years? Also, I hear you mention the 70 weeks of Daniel, but can you describe it some more please? Thanks muchly!
Dear Bro. Dohnie, I was about to prepare my sermon for this Sunday when I come across your question. I can postpone answering and then conveniently forgot about it. When writing about mid-tribulation millennialism, I was merely presenting that view and the pro-and cons of that view. However, on closer examination of Daniel's prophecy (70 weeks) and the Olivet Discourse in Matt. 24:1-51; Mark 13:1-37; Luke 21:5-36, I have to listen to the Lord Jesus in these pages and come to the conclusion the Lord was not referring to the tribulation as others have understood, some believe it to be 7 years, others believe it to be three and a half years. This "great tribulation" that the Lord spoke about, quoting from Daniel 9; clearly refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 by The Roman Titus and its atrocities and horror is so unprecedented that the Lord said there is nothing like it before and after (thus the phrase"great tribulation") This is the first part of Daniel's prophecy.(PS. Wendy traced the 70 years from the capture of Jerusalem by the babylonians in B.C. 568 to its the completion of the rebuilding of the temple) The second part refers to this event until the second advent of the Lord, of which the Lord doesn't seem to give any clue of its timing or circumstances in this Discourse. The wars, commotions, famines, pestilences, earthquakes (and tsunamis) are non-signs of His Second Coming. I believe there will be still much "tribulation" for mankind, and many "distresses" and "woes" in the end-time of this present age, to be followed by the outpouring of the vials in which is "filled up the wrath of God" (Rev.15:1)When? Jesus did not give a clue! So why should I speculate. Only be expectant, be watchful and pray, so admonished the Lord!There is a good book by Philip Mauro, "The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation", Georgia:Crown Rights Book Company, Reprinted 1998.
Thanks Bro Jonathan,
Your reference in the book of Erickson indeed help a lots.By the way the forum thing on Nov 13th changed to 20th already.
your stand upon mid-tribulation seem not so convincing, can you share more about it why you hold on to it.
Dear Jerome,
Pls refer to the above comment I answered brother Dohnie, I am not convinced by the midtribulation theory either.
Dear Bro Dohnie,
Regarding the Daniel’s 70 weeks, we must remember that the “seventy weeks” or “Sventy Sevens of Years” is associated with Daniel’s people, the Jews, and the holy city, Jerusalem. The fact that the weeks of years (490 years) are 360-day years is established by a comparison of Dan 7:25 with Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:6, 14; and 13:5. the weeks of years began with the commandment by Artaxerxes in 445 B.C. to restore Jerusalem. Chronologically, they are divided as:
Seven sevens 49 years---445 to 396 B.C.
(From Artaxerxes’ decree to the arrival of Nehemiah and the covenant renewal celebration at Jerusalem)
Sixty-two sevens 434 years---396 B.C. to A.D. 32
(From the dedication of the scond temple to the crucifixion ` of the Lord Jesus Christ)
One seven 7 years ---Unfulfilled.
National Israel will enter into a covenant with the future little horn---the AntiChrist for seven years(Daniel’s final or Seventieth Week). In the middle of the week, the Antichrist will break the covenant and demand that the blood sacrifices, restored by Israel in the last days, must cease. He will then set up his image in the Jewish temple and require worship. (Matt. 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3, 4)
Remember that Daniel’s language is clearly eschatological at points, denoting a multilevel fulfillment.
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